1
1 FAMILY COURT OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
COUNTY OF WESTCHESTER
2
------------------------------------------------X
3
PHOTIUS COUTSOUKIS
4
Petitioner
5 Index Nos.
X 00669-99; V 1284-98
6 - versus - X 00670-99; O 0972-98
X 00820-99; V 1284-98
7 File No. 53516
SUSAN SAMORA
8
Respondent
9 ------------------------------------------------X
10 Hearing on Petition for Violation and Order to
Show Cause
11
June 22, 1999
12 9:30 A.M.
40 Gleneida Avenue
13 Putnam County
Office Building
14 Carmel, New York
15
BEFORE: HON. JOHN W. SWEENY, JR.
16 Presiding Family Court Judge
17
APPEARANCES: PHOTIUS COUTSOUKIS
18 Petitioner Pro se
19
SUSAN SAMORA
20 Respondent Pro se
21
LAWRENCE I. HOROWITZ, ESQ.
22 Law Guardian
23 --------------------------------------------------
LAURIE HARDISTY, RMR
24 Official Court Reporter
40 Gleneida Avenue, Room 202, Carmel, NY 10512
25 (914) 225-3641 Ext. 294
2
1 THE COURT: First of all, sir, could you
2 pronounce your name for me?
3 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Photius Coutsoukis.
4 THE COURT: Coutsoukis?
5 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes.
6 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Coutsoukis, do you
7 have an attorney?
8 MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, Your Honor.
9 THE COURT: All right. What you're looking
10 for here is, in terms of, as I understand the
11 petitions -- I'm having some trouble
12 understanding them -- in terms of visitation
13 enforcement, as well as violations of the
14 previous Court Orders; correct?
15 MR. COUTSOUKIS: And, also, suspension of a
16 sentence. I --
17 THE COURT: Suspension of a sentence?
18 MR. COUTSOUKIS: There was an Order of
19 Protection issued by Judge Braslow. The
20 Petitioner accused me of telephone
21 harassment. Judge Braslow found me guilty of
22 Harassment in the 2nd Degree and sentenced me
23 to probation and a batterer's class.
24 THE COURT: Was that part of an Order of
25 Protection?
3
1 MR. COUTSOUKIS: That is correct. And I filed
2 a petition to suspend that sentence. And if I
3 may explain why at some point?
4 THE COURT: All right. That I can't deal
5 with. That either has to go back to Judge
6 Braslow or you have to appeal that to the
7 Appellate Division, but I cannot review a
8 finding on an Article 8 proceeding. That
9 makes me an appellate court for Judge Braslow,
10 and I can't do that.
11 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I'm sorry, Your Honor. I'm
12 not asking for a review or a reargument of the
13 case. She can have her Order of Protection.
14 I'm asking that -- may I please?
15 THE COURT: Go ahead. Why don't you all sit
16 down.
17 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Thank you. Okay. I'm barely
18 able to scrape a living, and to --
19 THE COURT: Excuse me. Are you reading from
20 something now?
21 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Your Honor, I'm so nervous.
22 THE COURT: That's all right. Are you reading
23 from something, so I'll know?
24 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes.
25 THE COURT: I don't have anything in front of
4
1 me.
2 MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, this is my notes, Your
3 Honor. You want a copy of what I filed?
4 THE COURT: No. What I want to know is, Mr.
5 Coutsoukis -- I have, as I understand it --
6 I'm trying to understand the files that were
7 sent to me from White Plains. I have three
8 petitions.
9 MR. COUTSOUKIS: You do not have the one --
10 THE COURT: But not one about, you say,
11 suspending or changing the terms of an Order
12 of Protection.
13 For that benefit, let me tell you, I
14 cannot change aspects of an Order of
15 Protection if you're claiming that what Judge
16 Braslow did was wrong at the time. If she
17 said go to a batterer's class, if she said
18 you're on probation, whatever she said, if
19 that's the Order of the court, I cannot review
20 that.
21 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. Judge Braslow has
22 recused herself. Judge Cooney dealt with
23 Judge Braslow's matters, including this one,
24 and recused herself. Consequently, Judge
25 Braslow cannot deal with that case.
5
1 Now, Judge Braslow, in her Order, at no
2 time did she mention anything that had to do
3 with battering. The Petitioner never accused
4 me of -- of any violence whatsoever, never
5 hinted at any fear of any violence
6 whatsoever.
7 The reason I'm asking for suspension of
8 the sentence is because I have to scrape a
9 living from a home business, and having to go
10 to White Plains three times a week, to the
11 tune of 15 hours of my business hours, in
12 order to do this sentence, I will lose my
13 livelihood and end up on the street and not be
14 able to support my child.
15 THE COURT: Again, Mr. Coutsoukis, I have
16 three petitions before me. That's why when
17 you said about the Order of Protection and the
18 batterer's class, from everything I read, that
19 rang no bells for me whatsoever.
20 I have your petition alleging violations
21 by Ms. Samora on Orders of -- the Orders of
22 the Oregon court. I have a request for,
23 apparently, I think, it's a change of custody,
24 and I have the petition --
25 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. It was an Order -- a
6
1 motion by Order to Show Cause that I sent here
2 last week. It was served to the other side as
3 well.
4 THE COURT: To modify the Order of
5 Protection?
6 MR. COUTSOUKIS: No. Well, the way I asked
7 was to suspend the sentence of the Order of
8 Protection.
9
10 (Off the Record Discussion between
11 the Court and Court Clerk.)
12
13 THE COURT: My clerk is saying there's
14 something with an "O" docket on it.
15
16 (Off the Record Discussion between
17 the Court and Court Clerk.)
18
19 THE COURT: Tell you what, let's go on to the
20 other ones for right now. We'll go back to
21 that in a moment.
22 In any event, Ms. Samora, do you have an
23 attorney?
24 MS. SAMORA: Your Honor, I have a court-
25 appointed attorney in White Plains. Now, I
7
1 don't know if he has jurisdiction in this
2 court. As I understand it, this case is still
3 considered a Westchester County case --
4 THE COURT: That's correct.
5 MS. SAMORA: -- and that you are, you know ...
6 THE COURT: I'm sitting as an Acting Family
7 Court Judge in Westchester County.
8 MS. SAMORA: Right. So, then, my supposition
9 is that he would still be in place.
10 THE COURT: That is true. Your attorney may
11 not realize that.
12 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Mr. Domicello resigned. I
13 received his resignation, his second
14 resignation. Mr. Domicello resigned from the
15 case twice. The second resignation I just
16 received yesterday by mail, --
17 THE COURT: Did you receive it?
18 MR. COUTSOUKIS: -- her attorney.
19 THE COURT: Do you have a copy of that?
20 MR. COUTSOUKIS: That he sent it to Your Honor
21 as well, sent a cover letter.
22 THE COURT: I've got one addressed --
23 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Addressed to Judge Sweeny.
24 THE COURT: I have a letter from the Law
25 Guardian --
8
1 MR. COUTSOUKIS: That's right.
2 THE COURT: -- or former Law Guardian.
3 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Which I -- that's right.
4 THE COURT: Which, for the record, I don't
5 consider letters, so --
6 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Thank you.
7 THE COURT: So, if anyone chooses -- if we get
8 to a hearing, if anyone chooses to call the
9 Law Guardian as a witness, they're free to do
10 so.
11 MS. SAMORA: I don't understand what you just
12 said, Your Honor.
13 THE COURT: I received a letter from the
14 former Law Guardian --
15 MS. SAMORA: Yes.
16 THE COURT: -- in White Plains.
17 MS. SAMORA: Okay.
18 THE COURT: And once I got down to the part
19 where it was dealing with substantive issues,
20 I stopped reading it.
21 MS. SAMORA: Oh.
22 THE COURT: I do not consider letters. I only
23 consider testimony from witnesses.
24 MS. SAMORA: Oh, okay.
25 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Mr. Domicello sent a document
9
1 that looked like some -- with a caption, just
2 like Marsha (sic) is doing, in addition to the
3 letter. The letter was addressed to you, and
4 he resigned the second time in this case.
5 THE COURT: Well, I'll see if he's resigning
6 or not. Do you have his name and address?
7 MS. SAMORA: Do I have his name and address?
8 THE COURT: All right. Could you get that to
9 us --
10 MS. SAMORA: Yes.
11 THE COURT: -- sometime so I could contact
12 him, let him know this is still a Westchester
13 County case? If he's asking to be relieved, I
14 will have to address that as a separate
15 application.
16 But, in any event, let's get back now to
17 the other petitions.
18 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay.
19 THE COURT: Can I have those three petitions
20 back while you're looking? My clerk is trying
21 to go through. I see nothing in here about an
22 application for the Order to Show Cause, so,
23 again, it was not sent up to me as part of the
24 packet from White Plains.
25 MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, it was sent directly
10
1 here, Your Honor.
2 THE COURT: No, it should not be, no, sir.
3 This is still a Westchester County -- let's
4 understand this, for ground rules. This is
5 still a Westchester County case. My clerks
6 are doing this as a courtesy. This is my
7 Family Court calendar in Putnam. Any and all
8 papers are to be sent to White Plains. They
9 will then transfer them. They will docket
10 them down there and then assign them to me as
11 though as I was sitting in New Rochelle or
12 Yonkers. Let's just say Carmel is an adjunct
13 of Westchester County for purposes of this
14 case.
15 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Westchester County has been
16 retaining my documents for over a month at a
17 time.
18 THE COURT: Sir, they have to go to White
19 Plains. That's the way it is. My clerks have
20 no facilities to handle Westchester County
21 motions.
22 Do you have a copy of the petition that
23 you sent?
24 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I don't, Your Honor.
25 THE COURT: You don't have a copy?
11
1 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I do, but I don't have it
2 with me.
3 MS. SAMORA: Maybe I have.
4 THE COURT: Well, it's not in front of me.
5 MS. SAMORA: I wonder if I have it here. Is
6 this it? Is it --
7 MR. COUTSOUKIS: No.
8 THE COURT: It's not in front of me.
9 I'm going to deal with the applications
10 in front of me. The first is the Order to
11 Show Cause that does have an "O" docket on it,
12 but it also has the "X" document of 670/99,
13 which basically is referring to, as I
14 understand this, Number 1, an objection to the
15 police station being used as a venue for the
16 transfer.
17 Here's a letter we just had faxed,
18 something from Marc Domicello, as we speak.
19
20 (Secretary hands document to Judge Sweeny.)
21
22 THE COURT: Again, he says he thinks this is
23 in Putnam County, also.
24 MS. SAMORA: Right.
25 THE COURT: We'll disabuse him of that notion,
12
1 but we can't do that now.
2 In any event, again, if I understand that
3 Order to Show Cause, Mr. Coutsoukis, what
4 you're -- what you are looking for, basically,
5 the violation's, Number 1, about you don't
6 want the sister-in-law to do the pickup;
7 although, as I saw in the Order, there's
8 nothing to stop a third party of Ms. Samora's
9 choice to come and do the pickup, as I read
10 that.
11 MR. COUTSOUKIS: It's not in the Order that
12 can stop my daughter from completely being
13 killed? My daughter, Your Honor, was born in
14 excellent health.
15 THE COURT: No, I read the papers, sir. I'm
16 just confused about what it is exactly you're
17 looking for from me on this Order to Show
18 Cause.
19 MR. COUTSOUKIS: The X 669-99?
20 THE COURT: No, the X 670-99. 670-99, the
21 Order to Show Cause.
22 MR. COUTSOUKIS: This one, Your Honor? I'm
23 not a lawyer, and I have to work 60, 80 hours
24 a day (sic) just to scrape a living. It takes
25 me a long time to prepare for a case like
13
1 this. If at all possible, to allow me time
2 for discovery and to be able to come here with
3 a case that can be tried.
4 The other matter is that my daughter is
5 scheduled to spend four weeks with me this
6 summer, two weeks starting --
7 THE COURT: That's another petition. We will
8 address that, the visitation petition.
9 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Right.
10 THE COURT: I'm trying to keep them separate.
11 Which is --
12 MR. COUTSOUKIS: 670-99, you said?
13 THE COURT: Right. 670-99 you're claiming --
14 MR. COUTSOUKIS: What I'm saying is, to be
15 spending all this time preparing for this,
16 when I have -- while I'm spending the little
17 bit of time that I do with my daughter, who is
18 extremely attached to me and who gets to see
19 me not that very often, I'm asking if -- if
20 you would kindly allow a lot of time for --
21 for preparation to come to a hearing on this
22 and to allow me to come with an amended
23 petition that would be clearer, more thorough.
24 THE COURT: All right. So, I assume, then, I
25 can put that in line with -- again, I'm
14
1 putting the visitation petition aside with V
2 493, which, again, consists of many of the
3 same allegations.
4 V 493-99, you don't have that. That's
5 the one --
6 THE CLERK: We have 669, 670, and 820.
7 THE COURT: That's ...
8 THE CLERK: Then I don't have 493. I have
9 669.
10
11 (Off the Record Discussion between
12 the Court and Court Clerk.)
13
14 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I have 669, also.
15 THE COURT: All right. 669-99, I have.
16 Withdraw the previous statement.
17 Again, 669 refers, again, to violations,
18 what purports to be violations, --
19 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Correct.
20 THE COURT: -- the late pickup, etcetera.
21 Now, on these two, if you want to submit
22 amended petitions, I would strongly recommend
23 that, Mr. Coutsoukis, especially on, let's
24 say, on 669.
25 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Right.
15
1 THE COURT: Let's go to Paragraphs 30, 31, 32,
2 especially, they are very vague. If you want
3 to submit a more definite statement, in other
4 words, the dates, times, places where these
5 things took place --
6 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes.
7 THE COURT: -- so Ms. Samora will have an
8 opportunity to respond to them --
9 MR. COUTSOUKIS: That's right.
10 THE COURT: -- I'll allow you to do that,
11 because, again, I can't possibly ask anyone to
12 defend this unless it's more specific.
13 So, what we'll do, then, is I'll give you
14 an opportunity to serve an amended petition
15 for 670 of 99 and 669 of 99, setting out more
16 particular statements as to exactly the nature
17 of the allegations. Those petitions will be
18 served upon Ms. Samora, as well as upon Mr.
19 Horowitz.
20 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Who's Mr. Horowitz?
21 THE COURT: Mr. Horowitz is the gentleman
22 right here. He's the new Law Guardian I'm
23 assigning for your daughter. Ms. Cotler asked
24 not to be assigned up in Putnam County. Mr.
25 Domicello may ask the same thing; I don't
16
1 know. But I will deal with that separately.
2 Again, I cannot just deal with that in a
3 letter right now. And the reason we went with
4 Mr. Horowitz, also, is because we tried to get
5 ahold of Ms. Colter and it was almost
6 impossible to do it, and I wanted to get this
7 thing moving. Then she called and said she
8 would not be available then, she would have a
9 long summer schedule. For the child's sake I
10 appointed a new Law Guardian to keep this
11 moving, and Mr. Horowitz will keep in contact
12 with --
13
14 (Secretary hands document to the Court.)
15
16 THE COURT: Here we have, again, Mr.
17 Domicello. He has one busy fax machine. It's
18 an Affidavit of Engagement.
19 MS. SAMORA: What does that mean?
20 THE COURT: It means he's already been
21 assigned to be in front of another court on
22 this day. If you're assigned lawyers, they
23 can only be one place at a time, and if
24 they're assigned to be before another judge in
25 that judge's court before this assignment,
17
1 then I have to let him go.
2 MS. SAMORA: For this specific date only?
3 THE COURT: For this specific date only.
4 MS. SAMORA: Only?
5 THE COURT: Correct. I haven't read his whole
6 letter yet in the other matter, whether he
7 wants out or not. That I will have to deal
8 with at another time. Again, as far as the
9 Affidavit of Engagement is concerned, I'll
10 allow that.
11 All right. So, we'll do that. How about
12 two weeks to get that served, Mr. Coutsoukis?
13 Can you do that?
14 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Could you allow me more time,
15 Your Honor?
16 THE COURT: Want three weeks, a month? It's
17 your petition.
18 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Right; I know. My daughter
19 will be with me, and I have a business that's
20 going to go out of business at the rate we're
21 going, and ... After her vacation, Your
22 Honor ...?
23 THE COURT: Why don't you do this: My
24 computer is going to be unhappy and -- the
25 White Plains computer is going to be unhappy,
18
1 I should say. Now I answer to the White
2 Plains system -- because once these things are
3 started, a time period kicks in. If you want
4 to withdraw this without prejudice to file a
5 new one after the summer visitation, you can
6 do that. This way I don't have it sitting on
7 my calendar and I can give you all the time in
8 the world after that.
9 So, you want to do that; withdraw those
10 two without prejudice? What we'll address
11 today is just the visitation petition.
12 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Okay. Can I decide that
13 after today?
14 THE COURT: Well, no. I want to know now,
15 because I'm going to lock you in for a couple
16 of weeks, two or three weeks, to get a
17 modified petition in. If you want to withdraw
18 it without prejudice, you can do that; all
19 right?
20 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Thank you.
21 THE COURT: All right. Modify -- those are
22 both withdrawn without prejudice, 669 and
23 670.
24 MR. COUTSOUKIS: 669?
25 MS. SAMORA: Could I have a --
19
1 THE COURT: That's right.
2 MS. SAMORA: Could I have copies of 670 --
3 THE COURT: You don't have to worry about it
4 now, Ma'am, because it's not on the boards.
5 You may be served later with a more particular
6 statement.
7 Now, then, let's go to the Order to Show
8 Cause under 820, which is to enforce the
9 visitation schedule -- actually, the vacation
10 schedule.
11 MS. SAMORA: I don't have that either.
12 THE COURT: You were not served with that?
13 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes.
14 MS. SAMORA: This is the only one I have,
15 669.
16 THE COURT: It's 820, Order to Show Cause,
17 dated May 18th.
18 MR. COUTSOUKIS: It may be that her attorney
19 did not send it to her.
20 THE COURT: No, it was supposed to have been
21 served upon her personally.
22 MR. COUTSOUKIS: That's what I think I did.
23 MS. SAMORA: This is the last one. I just got
24 it the other day. This is --
25 THE COURT: Do you have an Affidavit of
20
1 Service?
2 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I thought the court would
3 have those.
4 THE COURT: No, no, you have to, you have to
5 provide the Affidavit of Service for us.
6 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yeah, I did provide it when I
7 filed, but I don't have it with me.
8 THE COURT: Oh, you did?
9 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I would assume it would be in
10 the file.
11 THE CLERK: I haven't seen the file.
12 THE COURT: Well, tell you what --
13 THE CLERK: None of the papers have come
14 through my office. They've all gone through
15 Diane.
16 THE CLERK: You have to provide the affidavit.
17 THE COURT: You said you have not been served
18 with this?
19 MS. SAMORA: Yeah, I have --
20 THE COURT: You have to get affidavits on
21 this.
22 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I filed Affidavits of Service
23 with every paper that I sent.
24 THE COURT: Tell you what, what it is, what it
25 is, and for the -- I have a funny feeling
21
1 we're not going to get it resolved --
2 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Your Honor?
3 THE COURT: -- so I'll set it down for a
4 hearing.
5 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Your Honor, please, there is
6 an urgency. This matter is very, very
7 urgent. The problem is --
8 THE COURT: What are you looking for?
9 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Here's the problem --
10 THE COURT: What are you looking for?
11 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I'm looking to be allowed to
12 have my daughter in early August.
13 THE COURT: For how long?
14 MR. COUTSOUKIS: For the -- okay. The decree
15 said, the Judge said --
16 THE COURT: This is Oregon?
17 MR. COUTSOUKIS: -- that I choose when my
18 daughter spends her time with me, and I can
19 quote: Well, I intended for him to have --
20 this is from the last time she did this -- to
21 have visitation during the summer in a way
22 that would accommodate his schedule, and the
23 idea that the school would completely preempt
24 his ability to make a decision is certainly
25 contrary to my intent. I want him to be able
22
1 to make that determination himself, and I'm
2 not going to require him to take her to school
3 during his visitation. I understand your
4 position, and I'm ruling that Mr. Coutsoukis
5 will determine his time in the months of June,
6 July, and August, that he'll meet the two --
7 two-week standard and notify you by May 15th.
8 And I did so, and I put -- when she said
9 she would not comply, I put in the Order to
10 Show Cause which said for a month. Now I'm
11 faced with a -- with the fact that I found a
12 temp, somebody I can trust in my home where my
13 business is, to -- to keep it alive while I'm
14 spending time with my daughter, who's going to
15 leave for college on August 20th, and,
16 therefore, the earlier I can start the second
17 two weeks -- well, the first two weeks' a moot
18 point because the time I wanted passed already
19 and I wasn't able to get her when I should
20 have.
21 THE COURT: She starts college August 20th?
22 MS. SAMORA: He's talking about the aide.
23 THE COURT: Oh, I was wondering.
24 MS. SAMORA: She's only five-and-a-half, Your
25 Honor. Please, don't rush it.
23
1 THE COURT: Okay.
2 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Your Honor, she's a little
3 girl.
4 THE COURT: That's what I thought. You threw
5 me with that one.
6 MR. COUTSOUKIS: She's only six, and she has
7 the ability of a two year-old because of the
8 damage that was done to her.
9 THE COURT: All right. It's coming down to
10 the Order from the Oregon court.
11 MS. SAMORA: Excuse me, Your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Yes, Ma'am?
13 MS. SAMORA: That Order was written when she
14 was at what age?
15 THE COURT: I don't know.
16 MS. SAMORA: Three years-old, okay? She's now
17 -- I think we need to consider what her
18 present situation is.
19 She is designated by the Ossining School
20 District as a 12-month student. The reason
21 she gets those services for the summer months
22 is because she needs them. She gets
23 occupational therapy, she gets physical
24 therapy, she gets speech therapy, and she gets
25 one-to-one teaching --
24
1 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Your Honor?
2 MS. SAMORA: -- okay?
3 THE COURT: Excuse me. Okay. Here's --
4 Folks, I'm not going to take an argument on it
5 now. What I will do is this: I will set this
6 down for a hearing, and, also, all of the
7 information at the Ossining school will be
8 given to Mr. Horowitz so he can contact the
9 administrators down there, the teachers down
10 there. What I will do is, because --
11 MS. SAMORA: She's going to be losing a week
12 anyway with his vacation, but then it will be
13 three weeks she would be losing.
14 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Your Honor, my daughter --
15 THE COURT: Have you two talked to Mr.
16 Horowitz about the vacation? You're talking
17 about a one-week vacation schedule?
18 MS. SAMORA: That's already -- no, she's going
19 to -- because of the current schedule that she
20 has, she is going to lose a week of school,
21 you know, but that's okay, but I don't want
22 her to lose three weeks of school.
23 MR. COUTSOUKIS: She's not losing. She is
24 there to keep her mother from watching her.
25 The one-to-one --
25
1 MS. SAMORA: Excuse me, Your Honor.
2 MR. COUTSOUKIS: -- that Susan --
3 MS. SAMORA: I don't want to sit here being
4 harassed.
5 THE COURT: Hello, hello, hello. You're not
6 going to do that in my courtroom. Let me be
7 abundantly clear on that point. I will not
8 tolerate arguing. I will not tolerate going
9 back and forth. If that happens, everybody is
10 out of the courtroom and that's the end of the
11 matter; okay?
12 As I was saying, we're going to give all
13 the information to Mr. Horowitz. I will then
14 come back and schedule this matter for a
15 hearing on July the 9th. This way it gives us
16 plenty of time before August to get a decision
17 out. It also gives us plenty of time to bring
18 in all the witnesses you need on this point,
19 give Mr. Horowitz all the information he needs
20 so he can talk and prepare for this.
21 I would like to know your positions,
22 though, before we start.
23 Mr. Coutsoukis, you're looking for two
24 weeks in August?
25 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I'm entitled to --
26
1 THE COURT: No, no. Well, okay. You say
2 you're entitled to it.
3 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Two weeks, no later --
4 starting no later than the 6th, because I have
5 no one to keep my business.
6 THE COURT: Of August; two weeks starting
7 August 6th?
8 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes. The other --
9 THE COURT: You're looking -- you're offering
10 what?
11 MS. SAMORA: I'm asking that the second two
12 weeks start on August 13th because that is the
13 end of her school, her summer school, so she
14 doesn't miss any more summer school.
15 THE COURT: You're saying the second week?
16 MS. SAMORA: Right; August 13th.
17 THE COURT: The way it would be, the second
18 week would start August 13th?
19 MS. SAMORA: No. There's two weeks. He's
20 asked for August 6th through the 13th.
21 THE COURT: Yes.
22 MS. SAMORA: I'm saying the 13th through the
23 20th.
24 MR. COUTSOUKIS: 6th through the 20th.
25 THE COURT: He's looking for two weeks.
27
1 MS. SAMORA: We're both saying two weeks.
2 THE COURT: Yes.
3 MS. SAMORA: We are not questioning two
4 weeks. It's the start date.
5 THE COURT: You're saying the first week
6 should start --
7 MS. SAMORA: I'm saying start -- I'm asking to
8 have him start his two weeks August 13th.
9 THE COURT: Oh, start the two weeks.
10 MS. SAMORA: Because school ends on the 13th
11 of August.
12 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Which means there will be a
13 week of those two weeks where my business
14 would close. There would be no money coming
15 in. The July 9th date, Your Honor, is when my
16 daughter is with me. I spend very little time
17 with my daughter. My daughter has been
18 devastated. This one-to-one --
19 THE COURT: No, no, we're not getting into
20 argument, remember? Here's what we have --
21 MR. COUTSOUKIS: July 9th, Your Honor, that's
22 my daughter --
23 THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, if you keep
24 interrupting me, then I'm just going to end
25 this petition right now. I don't have people
28
1 talking over me, sir. Please understand that.
2 I'll dismiss the petition and we'll all go
3 home. I've got other people waiting in the
4 hallway, and I want to get to their cases as
5 well.
6 There's no question we both agree Mr.
7 Coutsoukis should have two weeks. The issue
8 we have is: Should it be August 6th through
9 20th or August 13th through 27th? That's the
10 only issue we have, apparently.
11 Mr. Coutsoukis, if -- you're saying you
12 don't want to do the 13th through the
13 27th?
14 MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, a different item, Your
15 Honor.
16 THE COURT: Well, just --
17 MR. COUTSOUKIS: July 9th.
18 THE COURT: Before you get to July 9th --
19 maybe we can get away with July 9th. What I'm
20 saying is if the only issue is, if it's that
21 key, we can, so-to-speak, move August 6th
22 through 12th, if that's the only thing that's
23 holding us up.
24 You're saying you can't do the second
25 week of that back end of August, i.e., the
29
1 20th through the 27th, because you're taking
2 time away from work. But if you're working,
3 you're not going to be with your daughter any-
4 way. What's the point of having the
5 visitation if you're going to be working?
6 MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, I will be with my
7 daughter.
8 THE COURT: All right.
9 MR. COUTSOUKIS: The fact is that I will be
10 with my daughter. I am self-employed. I work
11 from home, Your Honor, --
12 THE COURT: Okay.
13 MR. COUTSOUKIS: -- which means my business
14 will be shut. The same as the reason why
15 I'm asking to change July 9th. I have so
16 little --
17 THE COURT: Don't talk about July 9th,
18 please. Let's just talk about the -- see if
19 we can resolve the vacation schedule itself.
20 We're one week away from getting this thing
21 resolved.
22 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Right.
23 THE COURT: I can save everybody a trip back.
24 MR. COUTSOUKIS: It's a choice of having my
25 daughter spend that week in a place where a
30
1 Kindergarten teaching assistant gives her
2 one-on-one. This is a different -- series of
3 different individuals whose job is to keep her
4 from running around and from hurting people.
5 When she's to therapy, it's not, or to let her
6 come with me -- when, last year, she spent the
7 time with me, for the first time she had some
8 progress in speech, for the first time she was
9 able to do things that she cannot do for a
10 year. Taking my daughter from me and putting
11 her in the public Kindergarten is like taking
12 Helen Keller from Ann Sullivan and sticking
13 her in a day care.
14 THE COURT: I'm not getting into that, Mr.
15 Coutsoukis. The fact is, what you're saying
16 is, you --
17 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I will lose my livelihood.
18 I'm self-employed. I don't get vacation. I
19 found a temp, and the temp was somebody -- was
20 hard to find -- that I can trust to be in my
21 house answering the phones, is going to be in
22 college August 20th.
23 THE COURT: Let me say --
24 MR. COUTSOUKIS: If we follow her schedule,
25 when the decree and the judge specified that
31
1 that's what I get, that I should get, and he
2 explained why that's what he meant. If I
3 don't get this, Your Honor, I will lose my
4 livelihood.
5 THE COURT: You mean if you have your daughter
6 with you for one week you'll lose your
7 livelihood?
8 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I cannot work. My daughter
9 requires total attention, and I have so little
10 time with her, I cannot sacrifice that to save
11 a business.
12 THE COURT: That's why I'm confused, Mr.
13 Coutsoukis. You want to have your daughter
14 with you, but you say you can't afford to give
15 her the time she needs because you have to
16 work.
17 MR. COUTSOUKIS: No, I intend to do that. I
18 have a temp to do that, but the temp will be
19 there up -- from now until August 20th, and he
20 can mind the business so I don't go out of
21 business.
22 THE COURT: Okay. The temp -- I thought the
23 temp -- I'm sorry. I thought the person was
24 looking after the child.
25 MR. COUTSOUKIS: This is a college kid. He's
32
1 very bright.
2 THE COURT: I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
3 MR. COUTSOUKIS: He's minding the business,
4 but he has to go to college August 20th.
5 Somebody I can trust in my house, in my home
6 business, to do that while I spend time with
7 my daughter.
8 THE COURT: All right. The issue comes down
9 to whether she should pull the child out of
10 school for that last week in Ossining,
11 beginning from the 6th through the 13th.
12 Mr. Coutsoukis' argument is the Oregon
13 court said he picks it. Ms. Samora's argument
14 is there's been a change of circumstances.
15 This child has educational needs now which
16 must be taken into consideration and not just
17 say, Okay, pull the kid out of school; I want
18 the child now for my visitation.
19 Mr. Coutsoukis comes back with: Wait a
20 minute. I can't do that second week, the 20th
21 through the 27th, because I don't have the
22 person who can look after the business while
23 I'm with my daughter.
24 Does that about sum it up?
25 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Except that I have an
33
1 additional argument, and that is that my
2 daughter has been incarcerated in a totally
3 inappropriate environment to free her mother
4 into not -- and for her to be able to not
5 spend time with her.
6 THE COURT: Mr. Coutsoukis, that's not the
7 issue before me. That's not the issue before
8 me. The issue is your visitation.
9 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well, you mentioned school.
10 It's not school, Your Honor. I am the best
11 school for my daughter, and they know that.
12 There's nobody from the streets, that gets
13 minimum wage, that watches her, that's going
14 to teach her.
15 THE COURT: Let's do this: Why don't you --
16 July 6th -- we'll come back on Tuesday, July
17 6th. We'll review what we have from Ossining,
18 from the information from Ossining to Mr.
19 Horowitz, by that time.
20 MS. SAMORA: I'll get it immediately to him.
21 THE COURT: We'll go from there. If I
22 schedule a hearing on that, I will not
23 schedule it for the visitation on July 9th. I
24 will not take your visitation away from you.
25 MS. SAMORA: He has the 6th --
34
1 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I have the four weeks with my
2 daughter, the two weeks this Friday, because
3 that's the only thing she's allowed me,
4 contrary to --
5 THE COURT: When is your July visitation?
6 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I pick her up this Friday,
7 and I return her two weeks from this Friday.
8 THE COURT: You pick her up the 25th of June?
9 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes.
10 THE COURT: And you return her July 9th?
11 MR. COUTSOUKIS: That Friday.
12 THE COURT: You want to come back July 13th --
13 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Fine.
14 THE COURT: -- and we'll talk about this
15 then?
16 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes.
17 THE COURT: All right. I didn't understand.
18 We've got a problem July 13th?
19 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes.
20 MR. HOROWITZ: Yes.
21 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I apologize for my foreign
22 accent. I'm so nervous.
23 THE COURT: That's all right. People come
24 here with foreign accents all the time.
25 MR. HOROWITZ: Judge?
35
1 THE COURT: I beg your pardon?
2 MR. HOROWITZ: I'm sorry, Judge. I have a
3 cold.
4 I'm before Judge Tolbert that day with an
5 all-day trial, which I was going to call you
6 on the Simone matter, which was -- Simone
7 matter, which was also on that morning.
8 THE COURT: We'll deal with the Simone matter
9 later. If you're on trial, we'll deal with
10 Simone later.
11 I can bring you in July 15th. I'm
12 starting another case then, but I can take a
13 break. Like at 11:00? 11:00 o'clock July
14 15th.
15 MS. SAMORA: What day is that, Your Honor?
16 THE COURT: That's a Thursday.
17 MS. SAMORA: Okay.
18 THE COURT: Okay?
19 MS. SAMORA: Your Honor, may I --
20 THE COURT: What I'm going to be doing, also
21 -- I just got a note from White Plains.
22 They're trying to track down your 6/7 Order to
23 Show Cause. That's probably the one on the
24 batterers.
25 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I don't have a docket number
36
1 because --
2 THE COURT: No, it's not a docket number, it's
3 a date, June 7th. Is that right?
4 MR. COUTSOUKIS: The date of receipt, you
5 mean?
6 THE COURT: This is the note I have from the
7 supervising judge's office in White Plains.
8 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I don't recall the date, Your
9 Honor.
10 THE COURT: Well, what they've also done is,
11 apparently, from the history of the case,
12 they've asked me to appoint 18-B counsel for
13 you.
14 So, what I'm going to do is this: I'm
15 going to --
16 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Whether I want to or not?
17 THE COURT: You said you wanted a lawyer.
18 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Well, the lawyer I want for
19 the argument to submit for a specific case,
20 that is to submit.
21 THE COURT: On this one?
22 MR. COUTSOUKIS: The argument, yes.
23 THE COURT: On an Order -- an Order of
24 Protection --
25 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes.
37
1 THE COURT: On an Order of Protection, you're
2 entitled to counsel.
3 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes, yes, Your Honor, that is
4 correct.
5 THE COURT: All right. Now, my Legal Aid
6 can't do it because it's not a Putnam County
7 case. So ...
8 They do 18-B in Westchester?
9 MR. HOROWITZ: Yes, Judge.
10 THE COURT: All right. So, I'll point an 18-B
11 lawyer; all right? So, we'll take a lawyer
12 here who does Family Court domestic violence
13 cases.
14
15 (Off the Record Discussion between
16 The Court and Court Clerk.)
17
18 THE COURT: We'll get -- we're going to get a
19 lawyer for you on that one.
20 MR. COUTSOUKIS: There was no domestic
21 violence. She did not --
22 THE COURT: No, no. If there's an Order of
23 Protection, it's domestic violence. It's a
24 generic term, but that will be on the Order to
25 Show Cause regarding the batterer's. It has
38
1 nothing to do with the visitation case.
2 Yes, Ma'am?
3 MS. SAMORA: Your Honor, I understand what's
4 happening, and I don't know if this is part of
5 an issue, but recently, during exchanges,
6 where Judge Braslow has issued an Order that
7 the exchanges should be in a certain way, Mr.
8 Coutsoukis is taking pictures of me, and I
9 find that that's very harassing.
10 THE COURT: Well, I'm not going to make a
11 legal determination of that, Ms. Samora. If
12 you want to file for an Order of Protection on
13 that, you can.
14 MS. SAMORA: Is that not part of the existing
15 --
16 THE COURT: Why --
17 MS. SAMORA: -- Order?
18 THE COURT: Are you taking pictures?
19 MR. COUTSOUKIS: There have been some false
20 conversations. I have recorded the
21 conversations. I have witnesses. I have
22 asked in the court, in the decree, that the
23 visitation exchange takes place inside the
24 police station, for my protection from false
25 allegations. So, Judge Braslow, of course,
39
1 because there's a history to that --
2 THE COURT: Don't get into Judge Braslow
3 again. I read the papers.
4 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Yes. She -- Your Honor, she
5 ruled that we will take now the -- the
6 visitation exchange out of the police station
7 where there are no witnesses, where I'm
8 totally unprotected. And this was filed after
9 my mother returned to Greece and whereby she's
10 not in the car with me. So, I'm -- I'm alone
11 in the car with Susan now shoving my daughter
12 in and out, kicking and screaming. That is
13 the visitation.
14 I don't want any false allegations, and
15 the only way I can protect myself is with
16 photos. Now, the court has not allowed me to
17 show transcripts of conversations for the
18 harassment. It has not allowed me to play the
19 audio of these conversations, which she
20 claimed were harassment, but at least I have
21 something that I can fall back on.
22 I am an innocent man, Your Honor. I'm a
23 51 year-old person who has never violated any
24 laws. I have never committed a crime.
25 THE COURT: What do the pictures show? What
40
1 are they going to show?
2 MR. COUTSOUKIS: For example, it shows that
3 the Petitioner, who brought my daughter in
4 long pants every time at the police station,
5 which pants cover injuries which were
6 consistent and sustained, that she accused me
7 of lifting her dress and, she said, as a
8 matter of fact, out in the street. She and I
9 have not been out in the street for years, and
10 she said it in the courtroom. And even though
11 she got permission from the police station to
12 tape record our visitation exchanges, she came
13 to court in White Plains with absolutely no
14 evidence of any violation.
15 THE COURT: Did you get permission to tape
16 record exchanges?
17 MS. SAMORA: Tape record?
18 THE COURT: That's what he's saying. Did you
19 tape record the exchanges?
20 MR. COUTSOUKIS: She brought a tape recorder.
21 MS. SAMORA: Your Honor, I brought a tape
22 recorder for my own -- to stop this man from
23 saying totally inappropriate things in front
24 of our daughter. I prayed that that might
25 deter him from saying that I'm attempting to
41
1 murder our child and that I'll pay for it.
2 THE COURT: Which I should point out, by the
3 way --
4 MS. SAMORA: You know, I'm really -- Your
5 Honor, this is --
6 THE COURT: I should point out something, by
7 the way. On the papers that I've read, Mr.
8 Coutsoukis, you make a number of allegations,
9 including possible crimes against the mother
10 of your daughter, as well as -- as well as
11 possible crimes against the Law Guardian,
12 against the judge. You may want to talk to an
13 attorney on your own about that, sir, because
14 you're saying certain things which, could very
15 well be argued, do not fall within the
16 protection of free speech in an affidavit of
17 -- in support of an allegation. Some things
18 approach slander and libel, for which you may
19 want to discuss with an attorney if you want
20 to pursue that line.
21 MR. COUTSOUKIS: Your Honor, I have brought
22 evidence which is indisputable, of which I was
23 not allowed a hearing for years. And, I mean,
24 every time I would bring documentation from
25 her own physicians, the one she got from our
42
1 daughter, from her educational provider.
2 THE COURT: I'm just saying --
3 MR. COUTSOUKIS: So, I'm not making things up,
4 Your Honor.
5 THE COURT: All right. I just want --
6 MR. COUTSOUKIS: If they think --
7 THE COURT: I just wanted to give you that
8 friendly bit of advice.
9 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I wish they would sue me for
10 libel. I can at least prove something.
11 THE COURT: As far as the camera goes --
12 MS. SAMORA: Your Honor, it's very harassing.
13 He doesn't say "hello" to our daughter. He
14 sits there.
15 MR. COUTSOUKIS: That's a lie.
16 MS. SAMORA: What does it say to her? He
17 doesn't even say, "Hello, Teddy". He's
18 sitting there with a camera. It is bizarre,
19 Your Honor. What's the point? I feel it's
20 harassing. If she's upset, she doesn't want
21 to go. He's going to use these pictures.
22 THE COURT: Then I strongly recommend you
23 bring a witness with you. You may want to
24 file a petition for modification of
25 visitation.
43
1 MS. SAMORA: Your Honor?
2 THE COURT: I don't know what to say.
3 MS. SAMORA: Your Honor, I am totally
4 confused. I spent four months in a harassment
5 trial. Mr. Coutsoukis, through his motion,
6 has just said to you that I have violated
7 Judge Braslow's Order, and nothing happens.
8 He has said that.
9 MR. COUTSOUKIS: She has violated every Order.
10 MS. SAMORA: No, you have.
11 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
12 MR. COUTSOUKIS: I never violated any Order.
13 THE COURT: Thank you very much. We'll see
14 you on -- what date did I give?
15 MS. SAMORA: 15th.
16 THE COURT: July 15th at 11:00 o'clock. Thank
17 you.
18 MS. SAMORA: Mr. Horowitz, what can I get
19 you?
20 THE COURT: He'll discuss it with you outside.
21 MR. HOROWITZ: Thank you, Your Honor.
22 THE CLERK: That's just a further proceeding.
23 That's not a trial date; right?
24 THE COURT: That's correct.
25 (Whereupon the proceeding concluded.)
44
1
2 C E R T I F I C A T I O N
3
4 I, LAURIE HARDISTY, a Stenographic
5 Reporter for the State of New York, do hereby
6 certify that I recorded stenographically the
7 proceedings herein, at the time and place
8 noted in the heading hereof, and that the
9 foregoing is a complete and accurate
10 transcript of same, to the best of my
11 knowledge and ability.
12
13
14
15 ___________________________
16 LAURIE HARDISTY
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